Interview: Alex Kurtzman On How ‘Section 31’ Embodies Star Trek Values, And The Future Of The Franchise – TrekMovie
| January 22, 2025 |
By: Anthony Pascale
48 comments so far
Ahead of Friday’s release of Star Trek: Section 31, TrekMovie had a chance to talk to executive producer Alex Kurtzman along with director Olatunde Osunsanmi, although Alex ended up doing most of the talking for our short chat. We spoke how about how this different kind of Star Trek can still fit within Roddenberry’s vision, Trek branching into streaming movies, and what’s on the horizon for the franchise after Skydance takes over Paramount later this year.It’s been said that Section 31 is meant for a broader audience, and it’s a different flavor of Star Trek. So, what core elements of Star Trek did you feel still needed to be included within that mandate? Alex Kurtzman: Anthony, you and I have talked about this a lot. I think that you can’t make Star Trek, ultimately, without reinforcing [Gene] Roddenberry’s vision of a more optimistic future and I don’t have to tell you that there’s been so much debate among fans about the notion of Section 31 since Deep Space Nine and what it represents. One of the things that we felt very strongly about is if Star Trek is a mirror that holds itself up to the world and tells allegorical or metaphorical stories about how we live our lives, then you’re in conversation about what it takes to protect that vision. If you’re in the Federation or Starfleet, then you are forced by oath to live according to certain rules, to live within the Federation. We make a real point at the beginning of this movie of saying this story takes place outside of Federation space, but the people that you’re about to see want the same things that a traditional Starfleet officer would want. These are just not the people that have it within themselves to wear a uniform on a starship in a traditional sense. But they’re protecting the same thing, which is, in order for Starfleet to be what it is, in order for that vision of Star Trek to be maintained, you need people operating in the shadows and in the gray areas that the Federation charter doesn’t always allow for. And obviously that’s a conversation that’s happening in our world.Where the rubber meets the road, though, is in tone. If we made a very dark Star Trek, I think people would legitimately be able to say, “Wow, that doesn’t feel like Star Trek.” But we really tried to mitigate against the conversation by, first of all, making something that was really fun by putting in some very deliberate and specific references, obviously with Rachel Garrett being the most acute of those references, to what it means to be in the Federation and to be part of Star Trek and Starfleet. And ultimately, to give you a fun, funny, emotional story that like “wagon train to the stars,” is also hewing toward a Western paradigm. This is very much a redemption story for the character of Georgiou.Michelle Yeoh as Georgiou of Section 31 streaming on Paramount+, 2024. Photo Credit: Jan Thijs/Paramount+It’s also been indicated that streaming movies like this one could be the new thing for Star Trek, so are you already planning another and would it be a follow-up sequel to Section 31 or something different? Olatunde Osunsanmi: Well, I’ll start by saying, I hope we’re planning another one. I wouldn’t necessarily be privy to all of that. It’s going to depend on what the fans say about this one. And we’d love to do another one, particularly another Section 31. As far as the rest of the universe… [points to Alex].Alex Kurtzman: Yeah, we would love to. It would be wonderful. Some stories are better told in two hours, some stories are better told over five seasons. And our job is to figure out which is which. We had a great time making this. Everybody who made it had a great time. So I we’re absolutely open to more.Would this streaming movie format be a way to do something like the [Picard season 3 follow-up] Star Trek: Legacy concept? Alex Kurtzman: SureLower Decks and Prodigy fans are also looking to an animated streaming movie as a possible hope for more…Alex Kurtzman: It would be wonderful to be able to do that. Yes, the short answer is yes. We would love to do that. And at the same time, what I want to make sure of is that when we tell a story, we have a really, really good reason to tell a story. And that we can tell it in the right way. And sometimes that means doing it as a series, and sometimes that means doing it as a film. I don’t think we want to make one just to make one. We want to make one because it’s the right thing to do.Embed from Getty ImagesThis may be too difficult to answer, but are all the big decisions being held off until Skydance takes over [expected some time around mid-2025]? And have you had any early discussions with any of the Skydance people to talk about the future of the franchise?We haven’t. I have huge respect for [Skydance CEO and incoming Paramount chairman and CEO] David [Ellison] and for Skydance. We haven’t had any conversations because they haven’t engaged yet with the company. But here’s what I do know: I know that David Ellison is a huge, huge fan of Star Trek. He was one of the producers on the films that we made, and he loves it. He loves it a lot. So I’m sure those conversations will happen eventually.Right now our focus is on Strange New Worlds, which is about to start [production on season 4], and we’re two weeks out from wrapping [production] on season 1 of Starfleet Academy. And man, making those shows is such a full contact sport that I’ll be honest with you, we’ve got more than enough on our plate right now. I think the minute we start doing too much, the quality of the show suffers, and our job is to protect from that.A second season of Academy has already been announced, are you going to try to get started on that quickly? We’ve already started. Yeah, the [writers’] room is already working on season 2.So you think you would be shooting that this year? Earlier or later? Yeah, It’ll probably be mid-year.Kurtzman (right back) with the Starfleet Academy cast and other producers at table read in August, 2024 (Paramount+)TrekMovie also interviewed members of the Section 31 cast today, so keep an eye out for that after the movie premieres on Friday as we discussed some spoilers. TrekMovie will also be posting some early thoughts from editors who have seen the Section 31 movie late tonight after the (spoiler-free) embargo lifts, with a full detailed review on Friday.TrekMovie is also attending the New York City premiere which is happening right now, so look for red carpet interviews from that event in the coming days.TrekMovie is at the #Section31 premiere in NYC, ready for red carpet interviews. #StarTrek[image or embed]— TrekMovie.com (@trekmovie.bsky.social) January 22, 2025 at 4:42 PMKeep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
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“This is very much a redemption story for the character of Georgiou.”And therein lies the biggest problem. Georgiou is not redeemable. Georgiou is the space version of Hitler, Leopold, Putin, Netanyahu, Pol Pot, Amin, Hussein, Mussolini, Turabi, Stalin, Enver, and so on. Like all of the above, she is entirely unredeemable since she is a sadistic and genocidal mass murderer. The idea of redeeming Georgiou simply makes no sense.EXACTLY BRO! Adolf is one the worst characters in Star Trek and I mean that in every sense of the word.Trying to redeem someone who has killed probably billions of people is ridiculous for so many reasons. Could the real Hitler have been redeemed after trying to take over half the world and creating the holocaust? The answer is no along with all those other people you named And she was on Discovery for three seasons, tell me one episode where she regretted what she did? Not once did she ever take responsibility for her actions. It’s sickening she doesn’t ever pay for her crimes.What about the two part episode where she is given that test by the Guardian of Forever, where she does things a bit different? Like her treatment of Mirror Saru?But she never owned up to her actions. Just because she doesn’t want to eat Saru anymore or want to reform is still not the same as taking responsibility for all the murderous things she did before. And none of that erases her past regardless.And that should also come with a punishment of some kind. How do you atone for killing, torturing or subjugating billions of people? A well written apology isn’t going to cut it.Trying to redeem someone who has killed probably billions of people is ridiculous for so many reasons.FWIW, there is an extensive political science literature on “pacted transitions,” which is a form of democratization that occurs when the authoritarian ancien regime cooperates with its democratic successor. Examples include apartheid-era South Africa, where de Klerk cooperated with Mandela to abolish apartheid and the Spanish transition to democracy after Franco. While not examples of democratization, Khrushchev in the USSR and Deng Xiaoping in the PRC were also examples of leaders who, despite being products of their totalitarian systems, initiated significant liberalization.Doesn’t get the blood stains out from under their nails.I don’t think redemption story really fits as a term. Shes always going to be a complete and total monster who killed probably trillions, had killed countless people personally, eat Kelpians, etc and nothing she does will excuse that.Shes only known brutality, cruelty, betrayal and any moment of mercy or weakness is death. She knew about the prime timeline but dismissed it as weak, soft and ripe for conquest.Actually spending time there you can see the ideals of the Federation and Star Fleet were starting to rub off on her. She’s never going to be redeemed but she is trying to change for the better and do some good in her own Terran way. Heck she even tried to reform the Terran Empire when given the chance.For someone who is Terran, doesn’t feel empathy, who actually gleefully enjoys the hurt she causes to enemies and who wants to make the universe a better place is huge. Maybe there is some hope for the Terrans after all.I know your not exactly saying this but to me which universe you belong to makes no difference. The mirror universe doesn’t have something in the water that makes you “evil”. It’s exactly the same as the Prime Universe. Just he playes are playing different roles. If you ( not you specifically, just people) make an argument that even the worst can be redeemed, than you can theoretically argue that any deadly war criminal should be able to escape punishment and be able to be redeemed without any consequences . I’m pretty sure if a mainstream movie presented a fictional version of WW2 where Hitler is given an opportunity to redeem himself, it would be roasted by the media and fans. But hey if it’s a fictional character then why not I guess.But that’s not true. Terrans feel empathy. We saw plenty of them on DS9. I think what gets confused is we think of the Terran Empire and the military ot basically the government as representative of every Terran. On TOS, ENT, PRO and Discovery we didn’t see a lot of regular humans. But on DS9 we did and that’s because of Spock reforms which went horribly lol but it proved there are good Terrans there who didn’t want to rule over aliens but live in harmony with others. That was the only time we saw them.Maybe they are the minority but they do exist.“For someone who is Terran, doesn’t feel empathy”That is simply untrue.garak may have done similar acts but he was redeemed by his actions in DS9, aiding the crew there and then helping with the fight against the dominion during that war.She’s redeemable, but you need dextrous writing to pull that off. Seven of Nine, Garak, Suder… all have caveats to make them different from Georgiou, but at the end of the day they’d done terrible things and the audience was happy to keep engaging with them. Even Dukat of all people was getting so beloved that the writers forcibly made him more mustache-twirlingly evil to combat that. They had a perfect combo of a charming gifted actor and a complex character. They have the former in Yeoh right now. They’ve never stepped up with the latter.I get what you’re saying, but…* Seven of Nine was a victim, not a killer, and had no control of what she did.* Garak did what he did because he lived in a fascist state, which he regretted.* Suder had a chemical imbalance that caused violence, which was repaired.Compare that to…Space-Hitler: killed or ordered the killing of BILLIONS of people, tortured thousands or even millions, ate sentient beings, and committed endless other crimes. This is a purely unredeemable sociopath who deserves death, not a chance to be a hero. She’s not in the same category as the other three, particularly Seven who was never a villain to begin with. Discovery got this wrong with her from the moment she was introduced.i see her as similar to garak then in behaving as would in a fascist environmentAgreed on all points.Netanyahu? Are you out of your mind?Not entirely certain the Skydance deal will close by the middle of the year. The new FCC chairman suggests he’s going to be tough during their review of the merger. May not be able to block it, but they could gum up the works.Yeah, they’re going to try to wring some really unpleasant commitments out of them. It’s gonna get ugly.haha I love how the responses to Legacy keep getting shorter and shorter. Anthony is doing the correct thing by addressing the issue on behalf of a vocal minority (of which I’m not a part btw), but it’s funny to see the corporate response to them coming off as increasingly “go away.”Well, the thing is, “Legacy” isn’t really Kurtzman’s idea. It was always Terry Matalas’ vision. I have seen some people talk rumors that they (Paramount) might not WANT Kurtzman to do Legacy. That could be why Kurtzman is being short about the idea now.The vocal minority are the people who wanted a Section 31 movie. Most didn’t want this or care and we got it anyway.I guess I don’t understand the claim only a few people want this when this is the only spin off idea I Ihear constantly about online? What do you think is a more popular idea out there? The SFA show? Well the Doctor is back in that so it’s a little more popular now. Or is it a Khan show? A Lower Decks spin off? Or the Tawny Newsome comedy show? None of these sound like things most fans are craving for over Legacy. Or am I wrong? Even the Starfleet origin movie sounds like something only a few want and they are kind of maybe sort of making that anyway.So what other ideas are people craving for over this one?And in the Variety article Kurtzman did say they were thinking of doing a Picard follow up movie. I imagine some of that would connect to Legacy unless he’s talking about doing another TNG focused movie. Now THAT I would see as something more fans could want obviously.I noticed that, too. haha. And I’m in agreement with you – it’s not needed nor wanted. Nostalgia is sad.There’s been nothing but nostalgia for the last 15 years. What am I missing?And I’ll ask you the same question, what ideas are fans more excited about? What projects are people gun ho for? It’s supposedly just a small vocal group of people who wants this and yet it got double the number of signatures of the petition than SNW got. So I’m confused suddenly only a tiny group wants it.I would be fine with a Lower Decks spin off than Legacy but I still feel I’m in the minority.Yeah because the silent majority only wants Stupid Trek like DiscoveryIf it’s truly a majority, I don think that they have been silent at all about their distaste for, Modern Trek.LOL exactly. And funny how no one responded to my posts. If only the ‘vocal minority’ are craving Legacy, then what exactly is the majority craving for then? Section 31???? Um, sure, OK, we all believe that…not. And after looking at the horrific reviews, I’m going to guess that’s definitely not it either lol.“Sure.” Regardless of the context of how he gave that response in person, it’s still disheartening. The vocal minority wants a good show. Picard season 3 was a glimmer of that, so why not give us more rather than two more Disco offshoots?It would be different if Picard season 3 got a horrible reception and low views. But it was the complete opposite of that. That season even got many people who hated NuTrek since 2009 to like it. It brought fans together in a way no show has in a long long time. People were generally excited about the future. I get not everyone felt the same way, that’s OK, but that’s going to be the case of any Star Trek they make anyway. At least this has a great chance to succeed for the masses.So why not continue something they know could be a hit? But instead let’s make more dreck like Section 31 which only pushes fans away and reminds people why it’s still hated with a good portion of the fanbase.You know, it’s funny that Kurtzman said that there hasn’t been any talks with Skydance as of yet. One of the big anti-Kurtzman Trek voices along with someone who is more “meh” about Kurtzman Trek said that Skydance hired a consultant to do an audit on Star Trek, and apparently the recommendation that they don’t go & renew Secret Hideout’s contract, as apparently financially it’s hurting Star Trek. But there’s not much that they could possibly do to salvage it either keeping Secret HideoutThere’s been all of these things for years that everything produced by Secret Hideout since 2017 isn’t prime universe Star Trek & that everything that everything original they produced is owned Secret Hideout. Like, if they wanted to bring Star Trek back into the fold & produce “Star Trek Legacy” themselves, IF the rumors are true, they couldn’t do that without having to license out the original characters & concepts that Secret Hideout owns.I don’t believe for a minute though that there’s a rights issue, since Star Trek Online is able to have ALL of the ships from the series in their game. Of course, time will tell what is going on. The Skydance merger is still being worked out.I think I’ve given up hope of this being any good. I tried to remain positive, but it just looks so awful.Would of been nice if Trekmovie asked about the obvious comparisons between Georgiou and Hitler that many are drawing. And the decision to attempt to redeem someone that many see as a fictinal version of Hitler/Sadam Hussain etc. Are the showrunners and online editorial community just tone death ?To think that the Starfleet would employ a mass murderer is bonkers. It’d be like the CIA hiring Saddam Hussain. Just give us DS9 and VOY in HD already!or a spy/torturer becoming a ‘tailor’…Voyager and Deep Space Nine isn’t that easy it’s not just scanning 35mm negative reels of film.You have to redo all the special effects. Every separate element needs to matted into a shot digitally. If the material no longer exists or can’t be recoverable for re-rendering all that has to be done from scratch.Can you imagine just the amount of work it will require just to do the changelings. and redo every morph.For the cost of this Sec 31 movie, Paramount could have just conveted DS9 & VOY to HD.
Regardless of the effort & techniques needed, the cost would be minimal.Oh Kurtzman, when will you learn.“Would this streaming movie format be a way to do something like the [Picard season 3 follow-up] Star Trek: Legacy concept?
Alex Kurtzman: Sure”That one-word response is very telling.Honestly, I could do without a Season 4 of Strange New Worlds. It’s utterly soulless and relies way too much on gimmicks. It has nothing interesting or impactful to say.Have to disagree. Its the only current Trek I look forward to seeing. Unless they pull thru on Legacy. THAT I really want to see.Me too. I really like the show and actually enjoyed season 2 a lot. Not as much as season 1 but it was fine IMO. It’s very weird when I like something in NuTrek more than other fans haha.But Legacy would be my dream show for sure…assuming its good of course. With Matalas onboard I have no doubt it would be.If it could be more Star Trek and less silly space sitcom, I’d be happy to support Strange New Worlds. Last season was very mixed to be charitable. It didn’t at all feel like Star Trek felt like a CW show that winks at the audience, like Arrowverse or something. Far too cute.Do a final TNG Movie!!! There was no answer if Data got the same super-strength he used to have – I want to know if he’s just looking older or IS older in fact..I feel like the last season of Picard WAS the final TNG movie. As for Data, it was stated that the new Data has the same body construction as Picard by Dr. Soong. The Picard body was made to be able to age (as stated in the end of season 1). So, it is logical to assume that this new Data is older, and will age as a real human would. I don’t think we need another TNG movie or show, this was a great way to end that story. However, I would not mind a few TNG cameos in a Legacy show!It was enjoyable but the Enterprise D being rebuilt and being able to take on the Borg made no sense. I missed the Enterprise E.ya know, its too bad the Kryptonian Phantom Zone isnt a real thing or even a Trek thing. Because Kurtzman should be banished to the infernal void forever. I also am quite tired of the trope of someone in the production talking about being a, “huge huge Trekkie” because clearly these folks have NO CLUE on what exactly Star Trek is, and how it works beyond its name, and basic symbols from pop culture.The imdb rating, below 5 for sure, is gonna be an indication that you’re beyond wrong, Mr Kurtzman. You are forcing your personal vision through the throats of people who see their beloved franchise being torn to shreds. By you.Maybe he ment to say entombed rather than embodied. It certainly seems to stink like a dead body.It really feels like nobody over there learned the lesson of Picard S3 and SNW. THAT should be the future of the franchise. This is the opposite of what those were. I love Michelle Yeoh, but Georgiou brings out the worst acting in her. A Section 31 show could have been really great if done right. But this was a, “Michelle Yeoh got an Oscar so we can’t get her for a show anymore but we have to use her because… OSCAR! So, let’s make some stuff go boom! It’ll be great.”
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